Curse

clawofcrimson · Mar 29, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

so we end up getting 10 skills...that do 20 things each? boooring

Darksun · Mar 29, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by clawofcrimson

so we end up getting 10 skills...that do 20 things each? boooring

Everything thing you are saying is assumption/speculation.

Besides, why is having 200 skills better than having 10 that each do 20 different things? Do you really like skill Icons that much?

Zinger314 · Mar 29, 2007, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Everything thing you are saying is assumption/speculation.

Besides, why is having 200 skills better than having 10 that each do 20 different things? Do you really like skill Icons that much?

It's much, much less confusing, at the least. The World of Warcraft UI (which every major MMO seems to be copying) can hold room for about 100 buttons easily without hassle. Manipulating 10 skills to do 20 different things is way, way too complicated.

arcanemacabre · Mar 29, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

It's much, much less confusing, at the least. The World of Warcraft UI (which every major MMO seems to be copying) can hold room for about 100 buttons easily without hassle. Manipulating 10 skills to do 20 different things is way, way too complicated.

I would much rather deal with 10 skills that can do 20 different things, than try to figure out what 100-200 skills do, that are scatterred all over my UI. No way. Not to mention those numbers seem way off, anyway. I'm thinking more like our standard 8-skill setup, and each skill having maybe 10 different effects depending on the situation. 2-3 different effects would be most used, while the other 7-8 would be too highly situational.

Of course, it's all hypothetical, but I see no problem with a skill being simplistic, easy to figure out, and yet hard to master. Once you figure out how to use a skill efficently, that one skill will become your baby, and so on. It would become less build-dependant, and more skill-dependant, meaning not just the skill itself, but rather your ability to use the skills.

AJD · Mar 29, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I would much rather deal with 10 skills that can do 20 different things, than try to figure out what 100-200 skills do, that are scatterred all over my UI. No way. Not to mention those numbers seem way off, anyway. I'm thinking more like our standard 8-skill setup, and each skill having maybe 10 different effects depending on the situation. 2-3 different effects would be most used, while the other 7-8 would be too highly situational.

Of course, it's all hypothetical, but I see no problem with a skill being simplistic, easy to figure out, and yet hard to master. Once you figure out how to use a skill efficently, that one skill will become your baby, and so on. It would become less build-dependant, and more skill-dependant, meaning not just the skill itself, but rather your ability to use the skills.

That would actually suck. At least now I KNOW what each skill does, am I going to have to freaking guess in GW 2 what skills do, where, when, and how? No freaking thanks.

lightblade · Mar 29, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

If any of you played PoP series (Prince of Persia), you'll know how the sand dagger is like one skill that do 20 different things. And in "The 2 Thrones", dagger tail is also one skill that can do 2 different things. It's a chain whip, in which you can use it to swing across platforms, wrap it around enemy's neck to sufficate it, or just whirl around you and slice everyone around you.

I really like it this way. It's something that tries to make the players more creative.

arcanemacabre · Mar 29, 2007, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

I really like it this way. It's something that tries to make the players more creative.

I do too, actually. I think it might be a good answer to the "metagame" and "gimmick builds" and such. How good you do will be based a lot more on how good you are, rather than how good your build is. Something like this can put people on equal footing even moreso than how it is now.

Rhedd · Mar 29, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

If one more person says, "I played an ACTION game like that once, and I loved it!", I'm going to scream.

I love action games. I play them.

I love fighting games. I play them.

I love Guild Wars. I play it.

THREE DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES!

arcanemacabre · Mar 29, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

If one more person says, "I played an ACTION game like that once, and I loved it!", I'm going to scream.

I love action games. I play them.

I love fighting games. I play them.

I love Guild Wars. I play it.

THREE DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES!

Well then add a fourth activity:

I love Guild Wars 2. I will play it!

*hint* *hint* it's a different game.

Rhedd · Mar 29, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Well then add a fourth activity:

I love Guild Wars 2. I will play it!

*hint* *hint* it's a different game.

*hint* *hint* Then it'll draw a different crowd, and possibly lose its existing fanbase.

If you heard that Soul Calibur IV would have "new, innovative gameplay" that was a lot more like Mario Kart, would you be looking forward to it?

Why not? It's a totally different game!

The Ernada · Mar 29, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Well, they say they're simplifying things and in a way they are. But what about balance? Imagine Axe Chop. Axe Chop is balanced when you're just plain ol' chopping. But when you do a dash, jump and then chop, it does insane damage. Now imagine trying to discuss skills like that. "Axe chop is imbalanced when you run, jump and then use it!!! Nerf Axe chop when you run, jump and chop!!!"

And then imagine trying to figure out what combo your opponent used on you that was so overpowering.

Yeah Im only half joking but you can see where it might get unnecessarily confusing.... And yes this is all speculation. I just like brainstorming...

arcanemacabre · Mar 29, 2007, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

*hint* *hint* Then it'll draw a different crowd, and possibly lose its existing fanbase.

If you heard that Soul Calibur IV would have "new, innovative gameplay" that was a lot more like Mario Kart, would you be looking forward to it?

Why not? It's a totally different game!

Nah, I just wouldn't buy it. I wouldn't complain about it.

Although... Soul Calibur Cart does sound kinda fun... I might just buy that!

Rhedd · Mar 29, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Nah, I just wouldn't buy it. I wouldn't complain about it.

True. So why do GW lovers complain about the possibility of GW2 being so different?

Because, to continue my comparison, when Soul Calibur IV: Super Kart! (as fun as that sounds ^_^) comes out, you will no longer be able to play Soul Calibur III with your friends.

Oh, sure, the game will still be playable, and you can still have all of the vs AI matches you want, but the REASON you love the game will end.

Life-destroying tragedy? Not really.

Something to happily look forward to? Not really.

Former Ruling · Mar 29, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

For alittle comedy to break all the "GW is doomed" talk:

Jump Frenzy Spike. Everyone counts 3..2..1 /Jump FRENZY. Because Frenzy does 200 AoE Dmg when you jump.

Kityn · Mar 29, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

Well, they say they're simplifying things and in a way they are. But what about balance? Imagine Axe Chop. Axe Chop is balanced when you're just plain ol' chopping. But when you do a dash, jump and then chop, it does insane damage. Now imagine trying to discuss skills like that. "Axe chop is imbalanced when you run, jump and then use it!!! Nerf Axe chop when you run, jump and chop!!!"

And then imagine trying to figure out what combo your opponent used on you that was so overpowering.

Yeah Im only half joking but you can see where it might get unnecessarily confusing.... And yes this is all speculation. I just like brainstorming...

Actually this is what I was thinking as well after I read the OPs post. If you jump and use an Axe skill it would only make sense that you would do more damage to an opponent. If you are surrounded by several enemies and use a differant Axe skill perhaps you can do something simular to Cyclone Axe. Complicated combos I am most certain that Anet will not want to do. Even says that in the OPs post that Anet does not want to overcomplicate things. As for combos that might be seen as overpowered. It would stand to reason that such powerful combos would be easier to interrupt or make you more open to an attack. It would be very difficult to jump and use an Axe skill and to block all at the same time. Also jumping and and using an attack skill would make your attack slower than if you just used the attack skill.

About the button mashing thing. Are we not already doing that? We already have combos that require us to hit one button after another. For instance look at the Assassin class. Now I can see a problem if we have to hit more than 1 button at a time to pull off a combo and personally I hope Anet is not going that route. Here are a few things I can see that can affect skills. The environment if implimented (such as rain,sleet,snow,muddy terrain,ect). Where your position is to the enemy. What condiotions you are under (dazed,blind,bleeding,ect.) I am sure there are many more. Already we can see some of these in GW. I can see GW2 going further with this and making it truely a Gamers game.

arcanemacabre · Mar 29, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

True. So why do GW lovers complain about the possibility of GW2 being so different?

Because, to continue my comparison, when Soul Calibur IV: Super Kart! (as fun as that sounds ^_^) comes out, you will no longer be able to play Soul Calibur III with your friends.

Oh, sure, the game will still be playable, and you can still have all of the vs AI matches you want, but the REASON you love the game will end.

Life-destroying tragedy? Not really.

Something to happily look forward to? Not really.

I don't think I see what you mean here. How will SC3 be changed at all by the release of SC4: Return of the Cervantes-Cart? Personally, I hate Tekken 4 & 5, but I still play Tag Tournament like it's going out of style. Nothing will change that. I didn't get pissed when 4 & 5 came out and I didn't like it. I just didn't buy it or play it (that much).

Regardless, I don't see how changing how the skills work, or adding jumping, or having persistent zones can be at all likened to changing a fighting game into a racing game. It's a different game to be sure, it's not a different game genre.

Besides, it's not only conjecture, it's entirely based on a vague quote. I have faith that Anet will do it right, and not willy-nilly like the terrible example I gave. Do it to it, guys!

The Ernada · Mar 29, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by czymann

About the button mashing thing. Are we not already doing that? We already have combos that require us to hit one button after another. For instance look at the Assassin class. Now I can see a problem if we have to hit more than 1 button at a time to pull off a combo and personally I hope Anet is not going that route. Here are a few things I can see that can affect skills. The environment if implimented (such as rain,sleet,snow,muddy terrain,ect). Where your position is to the enemy. What condiotions you are under (dazed,blind,bleeding,ect.) I am sure there are many more. Already we can see some of these in GW. I can see GW2 going further with this and making it truely a Gamers game.

And there's also interrupts that require timing and some twitch skill as well. I guess I'm just worried about how it's implemented and to what degree. If combos or effects get any more complicated than a JUMP + SLASH then it's not okay for a game like GW.

semantic · Mar 29, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

...
Sorry but if you want to discuss things, let's be honest and call things for what they are. Jumping + using a skill for a different effect IS a button mashing mechanic.

I see your point, but it's really only a button masher if you pressing jump+attack more times that I do = you win. There will be people who play it like a button masher (think Wammos right after initial release), and they will be easy prey.

arcanemacabre · Mar 29, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Combos and twitch-style skills would be too much, methinks. I mean, I would love it, but lag would see to that kind of play style being painful, aggrevating, and overall stressful. However, like I mentioned earlier, if the skills act differently depending on the situation (for instance, what range your target is at at the time of activation), I don't see a problem with that.

Keep in mind that they also described breakable and moveable environments. This could have a huge bearing on your skills, as well. Imagine Meteor actually creating a small crater that may cause your enemy to lose their footing if they stepped in it. Imagine Earthquake actually causing fissures and uneven ground that may even cause everyone to fall if they run too fast. These types of spells might also have different effects if they hit different kinds of ground, like ice, or stone, even.

These kind of effects may seem random at first, too. At least, until you realize how it works, and then are able to use it against your enemy. It's a whole new level of strategy that could be reached, if done right. I don't see how that could be bad at all. Especially because it's incredibly balanced, and like I said, easy to use, difficult to master.

captainccc · Mar 29, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

How can you hate something that doesnt really exist yet?

I guess I just hate the rumors and I pray that Anet isnt doing most of them.